The Great Debate: Who Pays? Who Kisses?
This is another post from the lovely Girl True Heart. One of the Urban Dater's earliest supporters. She's pretty fly and we're happy to be hosting her second post on our site.Originally posted March 18, 2009 (edited for The UrbanDater)
I don't think the man should always pay…
Mr Listener and I went out AGAIN, last night! I don't know that that has EVER happened before: Two nights, two dates in a row? It is so easy, so casual, so friendly between us. We went and played pool for 2.5 hours. He beat me soundly 5 of the 6 games, and I came close to winning but scratched on the 8 ball. I was really so impressed that he didn't hold back, and our warm shared sense of humor bounced around the table which made the time even more enjoyable. There was definite flirting and definite playful innuendos on both our parts. Then neither of us wanted to go home (and I MUST point out for once there was NO attempt to get back to my house, get into my pants etc, which is so refreshing I can't quite describe it…) so we walked laps around the parking lot, at a slow pace, and talked and talked. He asked many pointed questions, and we learned a lot about each other. He asks important, well-thought-out questions, the kind a writer would ask. I value that so much. I always ask those types of questions and most people think I'm crazy to want to know a level of detail about something that they have likely not even considered themselves.
When it came time to tally up, I whipped out my card and said, “Please let me pay, the loser [of the pool games] should pay…” and I looked at him with pleading eyes.
I could tell it troubled him slightly. Pride, I understand it. He had paid for the first meet which consisted of coffee and soup at a local cafe.
So when he responded to my plea with, “How about we split it?” I agreed. I just can't help but feel there's no reason he should have to pay for it all when I know (and he doesn't know, but probably suspects) that I'm making far more money than he is. What do you all think about this stuff? In the dating world right now, there are so many laid-off people, misplaced workers, etc. If the income levels are really drastic, would that determine whether or not you dated someone?
I must say by the end of our time together, I found him very cute and very kissable, but there was no kiss. Several hugs, lingering feel-good hugs which were like shots of B12 to my soul, but no kiss. I definitely wanted a kiss. I wanted to see how it would feel with him.
And that brings up other old debate….should a woman ever ask for a kiss? Should a woman just add a kiss to the cheek when she goes in for a hug? I hear the voice saying, “Trust me if a guy wants to kiss you, he'll find a way to kiss you.”
But….what if he likes a woman to make the first move?
That doesn't seem right in this case though as this particular guy seems traditional and old school in other aspects. He did say he likes to take things slow.
Hmmm, maybe we should try holding hands. I feel like I'm in junior high school; please cue up Journey. I wish I could just check my libido like a coat at the coat check and come pick it up 60 days later.
Useless Postscript: This man ended up listing 20 fine qualities about me to my face after several months of dating, and then added a “but…..;” he did not like my physical body “enough” and wanted to see if it [my body] would change enough to continue a romantic involvement.
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As for the paying thing? Early on? Whomever asked, should pay – or you go dutch. If this was an online thing, or it was otherwise agreed to meet up – then dutch it is. I have never felt that the guys MUST pay (ha ha that sounds funny… or something…) especially if I know I am not into him. I don't really get the wonderment over "if a guy was into you, he'd pay" crap. There are no rules on this one these days – regardless of what you yourself think.
As for the kiss? Same rules apply. I have no problem making the first move. There was only one time when it wasn't welcomed – and I was 17. He was drunk. And maybe gay. Otherwise – girls making the move has always worked out for me. For instance: my last BF? Was taking his sweeeeeeeeeeeet time getting around to it. So I did it. He thanked me, and explained he can be very shy about making the first move, how to do it, will it be awkward, did I want him too… but he definitely wanted to. SO.
My thoughts, any way!
PS I have no words for that little update there. Really? Boo on that.
Yes, about the postscript – absolutely true that after 3 months of dating, he dismissed me because he was "into thin." I appreciated the honesty, if not the lengthy time frame it took to reach. All is well in the end as summer 2010 brought me a fantastic man who likes me "just as I am."
Not to hijack my own post but…
Since I submitted this to The Urban Dater, an interesting volley of conversation has cropped up among my female friends and coworkers (yes, two separate groups of people) regarding "Dating (or not Dating) the Unemployed."
Most of my friends were split, some would, some would not, date a man who was unemployed. Some said it would depend, no not on the type of work they did, but on how long they were out of work. I found that puzzling as if the individual had control over the length of time, as if a hard-working man did not want to return to work as soon as he possibly could. Obviously, we're not talking about slackers here.
And a coworker recently confided that she would be discontinuing a new relationship (2-3 months) because the man had lost his job. I intimated that perhaps there was something else wrong with the relationship to cause such a drastic reaction, but she insisted that it was simply the fact that she would have to start being conscious about the money situation. She preferred it to be something she didn't have to think about. In these days, I think she's living with her head in the sand. Westchester County, NY sand, but still.
If women keep waiting for that fairy tale situation to come along, without some bumps along the road, they're going to be as disappointed as they are when watching that ridiculous reality show The Bachelor!
And I wonder, men, is it any different for you? How much does employment status factor into whether or not you'd date a woman?
I always volunteer to split the check on the first date, but not going to lie, I love it when they turn me down and pay. It's such a gentlemanly gesture. The second date, I think the woman should expect to pay for at least part, if not all. If a guy pays for movie tickets, I always pay for the popcorn and drinks. A little give and take on both sides goes a long way.
And for the kiss? I say if you are feeling it..go for it 🙂
PS As for Mr. Listener, well…he probably had a little penis. (Sorry, I couldn't resist!)
I agree, I always like it when they pay on the first date. But I will always offer to pay for dessert or drinks and definitely insist if there's a second date. Part of me thinks it's unfair and I would gladly split if asked; but something about him whipping out the wallet and taking care of things is sexy. The feminist side of me cringes at this.